Why Unskilled, Unsuccessful, and Fake mPUA’s Can Survive
I think everyone will be happy to know that we are feverishly working on our next Expose. (Hint: Having 8 lays over the course of over 2 years means you are NOT skilled enough to be an instructor.)
This post is both a preface to our next subject, as well as something that applies to all of our past posts as well.
At any point in time, we are constantly in the process of investigating multiple companies/individuals for future topics. As part of this research, we contacted the owner of one of the larger companies in this industry. This company is legitimate and has a very good reputation. The problem and reason we contacted them was their affiliate relationship with a very questionable instructor.
That conversation turned into somewhat of a discussion about the validity and usefulness of Bootcamp Reviews by the students.
There is an unbelievable amount of instructors out there who when challenged about their skill level and competency at instructing, point to their reviews and success and decry “My reviews/lack of refunds/success speak for themselves.”
Well, here is the problem. Nearly all of the students who participate in bootcamps are completely unknowledgeable about the topic of seduction. They aren’t skilled at it, they aren’t successful with women, and they don’t know what it takes to be good. This is the reason why they are paying someone to teach them in the first place.
The issue arises when those people start writing testimonials for the companies they took the bootcamp from. What most guys who teach this skillset won’t tell you is that getting positive bootcamp reviews doesn’t take a high level of understanding, skill, or competency. You are teaching someone who doesn’t have a clue what they are doing, so any instructor with more knowledge than a student can appear to be a “Guru.” As you may or may not know, most of the guys on the PUA Watchdog panel have taught bootcamps for a variety of the companies in the community, and they will certainly tell you that almost every company has instructors that shouldn’t be teaching others. They will also tell you that these instructors – which rarely actually have success with women themselves – are able to get glowing reviews from students.
That is the summary. Here are a couple portions from the email – some parts were added for clarity – that describe this in detail:
“The glaring problem with the community, and why illegitimate pickup
companies can be successful, is because inexperienced guys simply cannot
tell the difference between good information and bad information.I’ve taught bootcamps in the past, and I know as well as anybody who
teaches them that in most cases it takes an extremely poor performance to
get a refund request.Example:
When I and most of the other good PUA’s I know first got into the community a few years ago, I (we) couldn’t do cold approach. To me, watching a guy walk up to a random group of girls and talk for 15 minutes and have them laughing, getting numbers, makeouts, etc… at the time,
that would have seemed amazing. I would have relished the chance to learn
from someone who could do that.However, that’s meaningless. I think you understand what I mean, but I’ll
provide the below paragraph anyways.I started to see how misleading that can be when I got to the point where
I could talk to girls and get numbers, but I wasn’t actually converting
those to lays. However, guys from the local lair (NYC) would watch me and would
see me talking and getting numbers and makeouts and think I was getting
laid. That did not feel right. I wasn’t. But even at that skill level, I
could have easily sold training (I had people ask for training constantly), taught a bootcamp, and not gotten any refund requests… and good testimonials to boot, simply because what I
was doing appeared to be getting results. (which it was to a certain
degree, but there is a very big difference between what you see at a club, and
what, if anything, happens in the bedroom.)Simply, someone’s reviews/testimonials/success at selling and teaching
bootcamps can be completely independent of their actual skill.
Furthermore, it’s in the contract that every attendee signs that a refund
request must be made at the bootcamp, and most students write testimonials
before they’ve actually used the training long enough to know if it
actually works. It’s unlikely they’ll revisit or retract the testimonial
once they’ve figured that out (if they ever do).”
So if infield perfomance and student testimonials aren’t accurate in their portrayal of an instructor’s skill level, success, or competency… how do you judge them accurately.
Well, the answer is quite simple. An instructor’s skill level can really only be judged by somebody who already has a high skill level and experience. Someone who has already gone through the journey, and who is getting the results, can easily tell the difference between a legitimate instructor, and a phony.
It was this experience and ability which allowed us to look past the 5 Star Youtube Rating and endless sea of positive comments of the SeduceInSeconds video which we exposed – and see it for what it really was, a fake. In fact, that in itself proves the point that new guys are simply not in a position to judge the skill and competency of an instructor (There were literally hundreds going gaga over that video, unable to see what is blatantly obvious to an experienced and skillful instructor).
Bringing this back around – This post has 2 purposes.
The first is to remind everyone that positive reviews from inexperienced guys aren’t worth the paper their written on. It takes experience, knowledge, and skill to make an accurate review or critique, none of which most testimonial writer’s posses.
We realized this, which is why we’ve hand picked a panel of respected, and most importantly successful PUA’s to have roundtable discussions on the topics we research. We make sure that those we discredit here are absolutely deserving of it. We make sure that those we discredit are frauds or liars. If it’s questionable, we simply rate it as suspicious. As this post explains, this is the only accurate method and viable method to judge an instructor’s skill and competency.
The second is to nip the “Look at our reviews,” defense in the bud. It’s meaningless and says nothing about the actual skill level of the instructor.
Until next time!
-Blaze
P.S. Watch for out next Expose… It will be up in the next couple days!
Good looking out guys.
Very interested in what you pull.
Uh Oh…
Looks like all of that Karma is finally going to catch up with Dream.
Most well known PUA’s won’t say anything about this because they speak at his event. I’m glad someone is FINALLY willing to come out and say what EVERYONE is thinking.
Could puawatchdog put up a list of reputable companies and/or instructors? This would be really helpful as it’s hard as a beginner to figure this out.
I agree with chris.
A newbie doesn’t has the experience to judge and choose a training congruent with his learning style and personality. One can either choose the company with the more effective marketing strategy or just over-analysing and doing nothing…
An independent white-list of good companies would be very helpful (along with a black-list).
What’s going on with this?..
I think people who have been around for a while know who is reputable. Sinn, Love Systems, Charisma Arts, Brad P, and so on. Venusian Arts isn’t bad if you actually get Mystery infield and he actually pays attention to you. Carlos Xuma seems bland but okay.
The blacklist? I think that’s a much longer list..
Hi,
thanks for such great exposes of con artists!
Can you post your opinion on the following peep:
Captain Jack (http://captainjackpua.blogspot.com)
Eltopo (http://the-red-mole.blogspot.com/)
thanks
More than 1 month ago,
[quote]P.S. Watch for out next Expose… It will be up in the next couple days![/quote]
Still waiting, guys
What happened?
What is your opinion of aceology.net?
They just popped up on the scene recently. Basically, the guy markets through facebook, using David DeAngelo’s friendlist and has “ladywings” add guys then market to them. Its the same old Mystery Method, rehashed under a different name, from what can be seen on his website, and of the “gurus” that I’ve spoken with, nobody has a clue as to who this guy is.
To pau regarding eltopo:
I’m in no way affiliated with this site, but I have heard ElTopo speak before, and I would have to say he’s a fraud. Everything he said was ripped off Mystery Method, and he had a hard time holding the attention of a group who came there to see him… so I shudder to think what he’d be like in-set.
However, this is just my opinion; maybe he was just having an off night and/or doesn’t give any of his real knowledge out for free. Still, I wouldn’t waste my time with him. He came to my town and used a local lair meeting to sell his $1500 bootcamp. If I’m going to spend $1500 on a bootcamp, I’m going to go to a name I respect, like RSD.
Do an impartial expose on Ideagasms…
http://www.thundercatseductionlair.com/2008/09/22/ideagasms-melt-down-stephanes-lies-revealed/
RSD being a respectable name? Sure, so is the Nigerian conflict diamon scam ;p
I wonder what is Mehow’s reputation?
Mehow innovates a lot, releases great products, and provides a lot of in-field videos. The reviews of his bootcamps are amazing.
A few people in the scene are still saying he’s a rip of MM, but they don’t know what they’re talking about, they repeat what they read years ago because they can’t have an original opinion.
Well done, guys!
Do you keep working on new cases or is there nothing suspicious anymore?
when is the next expose? must now be sooner than soon, right?
Hey guys, amazibng site, have been ripped off in my ealier yrs, and now I want to give some back to those strutters
Sign me up for a europe-tour, im currently working in copenhagen
P.s My bootcamps are alle free, / I get a kick out teaching)
A.
HERE IS A FINE EXAMPLE OF FAKE MPUA’S.
Some dude named Rob aka The Judge and Simon aka GoldenChild are trying to sell people on bootcamps in NYC. You can read about their gimics and how they got called out on http://www.nycsargeteam.com
If you look at their blogs – they are RSD bootcamp kids. There is no way in hell you are going to tell me kids that took a bootcamp in August of 2008 are qualified to make their own company and teach bootcamps.
BUYER BEWARE
I won’t post their information here because god knows what happens when you sign up for a workshop with fakers…YOU GET RIPPED OFF
PUA WATCHDOG – If you want to get their contact info, email me. I’d love to get these guy’s off the street. They’ve tried to add every guy out there trying to learn pick up on facebook and get them to sign up for their dumb workshop. THIS IS JUST PATHETIC.
and that judge kid, looked at his pics. he’s not getting 10s, but to the regular guy, he’s taking a lot of pics with girls. but anyone can do that.
one thing that is true is he needs braces, cause he’s got bad teeth…i think you call it a SNAGGLE TOOTH
ROB THE JUDGE, THIS COMMENT WAS FOR YOU BUDDY. THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR TRYING TO SCREW HONEST PEOPLE OVER
BUYER BEWARE
THEJUDGE GOLDENCHILD PUA DO NOT SIGN UP FOR WORKSHOPS NYC
I just wanted to say, briliant idea behind this site.
This could definitely become a ‘go to’ place for product honesty
Uploaded on YT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK4NtSqjoCc
Post the Vid in PUA Forums … Props to PUA Watchdog
Nel have you even taken bookcamps with Rob judge or Simon? do you know anyone who has? No you havent you just saw that they post on RSD took a bootcamp and now are spouting the hate. I actually know these guys and they have been in the community for over 2 years. Their prices are insanely cheap compared to some of these other “professional instructors” who suck and cant deliver. By the way I speak from experience having payed 2 grand to Joe D a “professional” instructor from Venusian arts, who not only took my money and didnt deliver but when i posted a less than flattering review which did not slam him but just said that he wasnt very good, we went out and posted my personal information on message boards. Did you know that searching someones name in google pops up information thats included in message boards, yeah i found out that little fact after my employer found Joe D’s post in google. Thats a real rip off artist. Both Judge and Simon actually deliver and i dont speak cause i know the dudes, their students go on to get results. Thats not a rip off. Educate yourself.
I agree great idea with this site since there are soooo many frauds out there taking advantage of the unknowing public.
I wanted to follow up Nel’s comments about Rob Judge and Golden child. I know these guys personally. I live in NYC and have been out with Rob more than a couple of times and golden child is a dick with an inflated ego. Bottom line, I agree 100% with Nel. They are scam artists preying on the guys with absoclutely no real world knowledge of the seduction game.
These guys are not pulling anything that remotely resembles a 10. The pics and videos they have are with 8’s at best.
These are the stereotypical ‘talk a big game’ PUA’s. There is no substance behind any of it. Rob is a professional writer and his amazing tales of pick up are just that, tales. Having started reading his stuff about 1 year ago on VA and nycsarge, he seemed like the shining star of pickup with the way he wrote. Most recently, he’s a big RSD fanboy and even goes so far as to quote jeffy in a bunch of his writings without even noticing it. His stories are really popular on RSD now. He goes by RemembranceofBeing or something like that. Honestly, he has a lot of guys on his dick but when it comes to handling business in the real world, he’s barely a step above the average chump.
Also not sure if this is true but they both took an RSD bootcamp not too long ago and now they are teaching. Someone mentioned that RSD has a contract you have to sign before a BC that stipulates you cannot run a pick up company or teach a BC within 5 years of taking a BC with them.
They also attempted to get students off nycsargeteam.com which is a free lair, and charge them. Now they are on facebook fishing for more students.
PUAwatchdog might want to look into them
Hey guys – just wanted to comment on a few things since I see there are a few post from initial post.
TheWarlock – I’m all for defending your friends. But look, I know them too. I also know you, David Arroyo. I’ve even been out with you guys. So I know the deal man. Its cool that you sarge with them and they helped you, but they are not MPUAs and I’m just trying to make a point that I’m tired of guys thinking that being able to pick up chicks here and there means you can scam newbies. I think the seduction community is great but there are very few people that are innovative and have the right personality to actually teach. Both Rob and Simon are just rehashing RSD. Rob even posted his double flake reverse technique on the nycsarge and his own forum – albeit he gave credit to BradP., he didn’t create it.
I’ve done my research. I’m all for instructions and getting help because its all about a hand, not a handout. But your pals should probably be helping for free and hone their own skills before they go off charging $600 dollars for a workshop and then having 30 day challenges like RSD workshops.
Hit me back up if you got questions – you can find me on myspace
http://www.myspace.com/hypno2099
Also want to say to David Arroyo, it probably wasn’t a good idea to take a workshop from Joe D. I’m assuming when you took it, you watched the pick up artist and said wow Joe D from the pick up artist! I’m signing up. And you might have been a newbie.
This is the same thing going on with your friends RobJudge and TheGoldenChild – fraud, they aren’t ready to teach. You can learn from Jeffy or Tyler but it doesn’t mean you are ready to teach. Show me their 50 lay reports like BradP had before he got street cred. Or a 5 lays in 5 nights report on masf and I’ll give you props and your boys. Until then, sorry mate. All your friends have done is taken their local reputation from RSD and NYCSARGETEAM and made their own forum that you probably now post on. Have them post on masf and have the big guys like nashvilleplayboy and sleazy put them to the test. These guys are 100x better and don’t even charge to give advice or meet up and sarge.
BigJohn – respect for keeping it real man. I don’t know who you are but you obviously know how it goes. Hopefully you got some better wings that are actually about just being a better person rather than going out and taking people’s money.
I’m just tired of the scam artist. Warlock, I’m sure you’re a good guy man. You’ve obviously worked hard on yourself and are now reaping some of the benefits. You know what a long hard road its been to get to where you are and where you want to be. But I just don’t understand how you can justify these guys starting a company based on a resume that really just has 1 workshop behind their back. They really didn’t come up with a method or have been an assistant coach for anyone else. I’m sure they are learning just as you are and that’s what pisses me off the most. Their game is not tight and that’s my problem with them teaching.
Cheers man. All the best to you and your friends. I just hope you really believe in what you are defending.
this is just hilarious. that dude robjudge just posted this about himself on is website
2 of new yorks finest dating instructors? LOL yea they really match up with BradP and Lance Mason coaches in NYC – these two guys are such a joke.
“This time round we have 2 of New Yorks finest dating instructors with a had hitting edge and playful all roundedness. Rob Judge & Golden Child are constantly supplying the pickup community with great advice on how to be your best self and be a naturally attractive male through congruency & fun…”
I dont see what the big deal is with the judge and the golden child? They hang around with mostly losers who are impressed at the mere fact they can make a girl laugh. Once in a while they get lucky and get a makeout with a HB6. Congrats guys.
Rob Judge and GoldenChild are scam artist. They steal other people’s ideas, and don’t even portray them right. They might even be dating each other. Save your money.
Rob Judge is gay… from his cowboy boots to his fur coat… HOMO… stay away!
Seems like Alan Roger Curry likes to use his followers to boost his amazon.com ratings
just read it starting page 3
http://www.revolution31.com/forum/showthread.php?p=84263#post84263
Goldenchild is a clown. Don’t give him any money, it will be the biggest waste of your life. He talks big game, but when push comes to shove, he is all talk.
Rob Judge claims to be writing a manifesto. This guy has been doing PUA for 2 years tops, and he is the product of an RSD bootcamp from about a year ago. Now he claims to be writing a manifesto because he has learned so much. Total joke. Guy doesn’t have a clue. If you want to write a manifesto you need years of experience. Rob is a chump from LI who moved to Manhattan and read a few PUA books. Yea, he has met some women, but anyone who goes out 6 nights a week looking for women would. Bottom line-don’t waste your money on his manifesto (that is what he wants you to do). Instead, if you want, write your own-you probably know more than him anyway.
RoB Judge and GoldenChild!! LOLLL
So these two used the nycsargeteam lair to try to get business by PMing EVERYONE. Then the moderators of the forum called them out and they started their own thing. GUESS THINGS AREN’T WORKING OUT TOO WELL BECAUSE JUDGE IS BACK POSTING ON NYCSARGE LOLLLL. And the idiots of nycsargeteam let him back. A BUNCH OF FOOLS. nycsargeteam is full of boys that think they are better than every instructor or pua that goes against what they say.
stay away from nycsargeteam – a fake lair – casanovacrew for life!! and stay away from fake coaches that use RSD info and pretend its their own – judge and child. judge has been trying to write articles on tsbmag but this just goes to show tsbmag is a piece of crap too if you really think this guy is an expert. how can you say anyone is an expert when they can’t even prove their skills against the best and truest forum – MASF
judge why don’t you go up against the real OGs (BradP – instead of stealing his stuff and making it your own, gunwitch, and sinn) or the new guys (Sleazy, TVA Olso,JohnnyC…the list goes on of men above and beyond your skill that do not charge a dime even though they can teach and demo better than your crooked tooth self). but if you’re teaching to save up for braces, then teach on!!! help this kid get rid of his f*cked up teeth!!
sarge on players. be a hater if a scam artist is amongst you. no one should take this shit.
So who was this company? Any more updates? I’ve seen alot of frauds pop up in the last year or so.